Backburner

Backburner

Postby Ni » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:33 am

OK...so I got it last night. Amazing how it changes your opinion from "the backburner is overpowered" to "BURNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!"

For those of you who still think it is overpowered, for me (normal pyro), I can usually have a 1:1 kill/death ratio. Last night, with the backburner, I had a 3:1 kill/death ratio. That's not right.

Me thinks Valve needs to un-nerf it a bit. What say ye?

[correction...I meant "nerf" not "un-nerf". Dumbaxe!]
Nothing makes a woman angrier than a sleeping man. --Anon
User avatar
Ni
He Who Demands Shrubberies Uncouthly
He Who Demands Shrubberies Uncouthly
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:03 am
Location: Idaho

Re: Backburner

Postby Darwin » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:31 am

Some where around here Fade commented on unlockable weapons in skill based games.

From what I'm hearing, it'll be the death of FPS games as a whole since everyone seems to love them!
MeatSpace: David
NS-Darwin
Now Serving 16450
:shock:
"Because keeping people advised requires helpfulness but running a server requires spite."
User avatar
Darwin
Carnifex of the Akimbo Smoking Guns
Carnifex of the Akimbo Smoking Guns
 
Posts: 4811
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Ban, IN Nation

Re: Backburner

Postby Anomaly » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:13 am

I have no problem what so ever with the backburner itself, I just don't like the added 50 health making pyros almost as strong as heavys. As it is right now, a pyro with a back burner can simply run up to a level 3 sentry and kill it with out the aid of a medic. That and the fact that they changed the pyros fire to do full damage no matter how close or far you are from a target.
Image
User avatar
Anomaly
Champion of Bengay
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:13 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California

Re: Backburner

Postby BigDXLT » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:08 am

Darwin wrote:Some where around here Fade commented on unlockable weapons in skill based games.

From what I'm hearing, it'll be the death of FPS games as a whole since everyone seems to love them!


That seems like an off-tangent debate. I don't see how an "unlockable" weapon is any different from a weapon buy menu or gear configuration in a bajillion other fps games. With TF2, they took a finely balanced game and are slowly adding in more stuff, which by nature is going to change this balanced system, but it keeps things fresh and interesting.

I suppose where you are going though is the whole "pyro stax" argument. A valid point to be sure, but certainly again, not a harbinger of doom for the genre. Worst case, it is fixable via that plugin mentioned elsewhere, but I honestly don't see it being that big of a problem (and it certainly isn't "new" with the unlockables either...)
Funner then chuckin' rocks at a sign!
User avatar
BigDXLT
the First Motorized Sasquatch
the First Motorized Sasquatch
 
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2003 3:29 am
Location: Fraser Lake, BC

Re: Backburner

Postby Fade Dunaway » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:10 pm

I think the Backburner is a little too strong, (mostly due to the +50 HP, imo) but what bothers me more is its binary nature -- it melts you nearly instantly.

Why this is bad and other instant kills (Spy, Sniper) aren't as bad is for a few reasons;

1) They are not combat classes.

2) Their instant kill is a precision action, designed to be high-risk/high-reward, where the pyro only needs a "tick" or two of crit Flamer to instabgib someone.

3) The Flamethrower is strong from the front and sides anyway now, since they removed the damage falloff at range.

I actually thought the Flare Gun, Airblast and lack of damage fall-off were fine, the Backburner's just lazy design to try to fix a class that needed help.
"Never hit a man with glasses. Use a bat instead."

AKA Alcoholocaust
User avatar
Fade Dunaway
Fogey
Fogey
 
Posts: 632
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:24 am
Location: Culver City, CA

Re: Backburner

Postby BigDXLT » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:50 pm

Actually, if they kept the damage falloff for the backburner (only), that would probably be a tremendous improvement. I would be surprised if they didn't tweak the BB in the next week or two.
Funner then chuckin' rocks at a sign!
User avatar
BigDXLT
the First Motorized Sasquatch
the First Motorized Sasquatch
 
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2003 3:29 am
Location: Fraser Lake, BC

Re: Backburner

Postby BigDXLT » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:54 pm

Ha! I loaded up steam and...

Fixed backburner's flame critical hits not being recalculated after collision. This meant that it would check if the target was looking away once and after that the flame could score a critical hit again even if the orientation changed

Added back some damage falloff to the Pyro's flamethrower. Not nearly as extreme as it was before the Pyro class pack


Fixed bug that caused Demomen to take a small amount of extra damage from their own grenades and fly farther using them
(OH GOD YES, I KNEW IT! I KNEW ME STICKIES WERE BUGGED!)

Fixed spy getting stuck in players after removing his disguise
(I actually had this happen last night, was confused... /stuck)

Fixed spy stabbing and being able to go invisible instantly

Fixed spy disguised as enemy medic being able to spam voice commands

Fixed buffed health not decaying properly after being healed by a dispenser

Selectable menus can now be operated with number keys even if they are not bound to slot1, slot2, etc.

Removed the remaining speed adjustments for carrying intelligence (a couple of game modes still reduced your maxspeed)

Fixed a buildable item placement bug where the object would not rotate after the user tried to place in an invalid location


That first fix will probably prove significant.
Funner then chuckin' rocks at a sign!
User avatar
BigDXLT
the First Motorized Sasquatch
the First Motorized Sasquatch
 
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2003 3:29 am
Location: Fraser Lake, BC

Re: Backburner

Postby Ni » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:41 pm

agreed.
Nothing makes a woman angrier than a sleeping man. --Anon
User avatar
Ni
He Who Demands Shrubberies Uncouthly
He Who Demands Shrubberies Uncouthly
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:03 am
Location: Idaho

Re: Backburner

Postby Fade Dunaway » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:43 pm

Nice changelist. The spy stuck bug was particularly irritating (EH OWLEH!?!) :)
"Never hit a man with glasses. Use a bat instead."

AKA Alcoholocaust
User avatar
Fade Dunaway
Fogey
Fogey
 
Posts: 632
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:24 am
Location: Culver City, CA

Re: Backburner

Postby Darwin » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:02 am

BigDXLT wrote:That seems like an off-tangent debate. I don't see how an "unlockable" weapon is any different from a weapon buy menu or gear configuration in a bajillion other fps games. With TF2, they took a finely balanced game and are slowly adding in more stuff, which by nature is going to change this balanced system, but it keeps things fresh and interesting.

I suppose where you are going though is the whole "pyro stax" argument. A valid point to be sure, but certainly again, not a harbinger of doom for the genre. Worst case, it is fixable via that plugin mentioned elsewhere, but I honestly don't see it being that big of a problem (and it certainly isn't "new" with the unlockables either...)


Nah, my point is really that the idea of grinding achievements in an FPS is blasphemy. It means that I have to 3 dozen silly things to go back to killing.

And, yes, it might have been off-tangent. This is oldf! I should toss you in a pit of skulks for even commenting on it!
MeatSpace: David
NS-Darwin
Now Serving 16450
:shock:
"Because keeping people advised requires helpfulness but running a server requires spite."
User avatar
Darwin
Carnifex of the Akimbo Smoking Guns
Carnifex of the Akimbo Smoking Guns
 
Posts: 4811
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Ban, IN Nation

Re: Backburner

Postby Ni » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:16 am

Darwin wrote:It means that I have to 3 dozen silly things to go back to killing.

You mean "It means that I have to 3 dozen silly things so you are not at a disadvantage and can to go back to killing.

I totally agree with that statement. It does change the game, presuming you actually care enough to want to do well.
Nothing makes a woman angrier than a sleeping man. --Anon
User avatar
Ni
He Who Demands Shrubberies Uncouthly
He Who Demands Shrubberies Uncouthly
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:03 am
Location: Idaho

Re: Backburner

Postby Mentat » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:27 am

I went and unlocked the backburner, but honestly, I find the air blast more fun :P. Hopefully the big fix balances it a bit.
Mentat
Fogey
Fogey
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:14 am
Location: BC, Canada

Re: Backburner

Postby Niteowl » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:58 pm

Fade Dunaway wrote:Nice changelist. The spy stuck bug was particularly irritating (EH OWLEH!?!) :)

Uh, yeah. I actually had changed my playstyle to take into account that bug, it had been around so long (hint, undisguise well before yous tab). But the whole, can't stab then cloak immediately 'fix' is going to be BRUTAL for new spies who can't 'stab-sap'. The poor man's version of that USED to be stab-cloak, redisguise, sap. Now it's just die a million times to a lvl 3 sentry until you can learn to stab-sap.
God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of his own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of any of the other players, to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time.
Terry Pratchett
User avatar
Niteowl
Mad Professor Hootarius the Stealer of Space Cookies
Mad Professor Hootarius the Stealer of Space Cookies
 
Posts: 8701
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 8:13 am
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Backburner

Postby BigDXLT » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:46 pm

Darwin wrote:
BigDXLT wrote:That seems like an off-tangent debate. I don't see how an "unlockable" weapon is any different from a weapon buy menu or gear configuration in a bajillion other fps games. With TF2, they took a finely balanced game and are slowly adding in more stuff, which by nature is going to change this balanced system, but it keeps things fresh and interesting.

I suppose where you are going though is the whole "pyro stax" argument. A valid point to be sure, but certainly again, not a harbinger of doom for the genre. Worst case, it is fixable via that plugin mentioned elsewhere, but I honestly don't see it being that big of a problem (and it certainly isn't "new" with the unlockables either...)


Nah, my point is really that the idea of grinding achievements in an FPS is blasphemy. It means that I have to 3 dozen silly things to go back to killing.

And, yes, it might have been off-tangent. This is oldf! I should toss you in a pit of skulks for even commenting on it!


As long as the pit is in MS, I'll totally be the first to jump. And yes, I'm taking the mines with me.
Funner then chuckin' rocks at a sign!
User avatar
BigDXLT
the First Motorized Sasquatch
the First Motorized Sasquatch
 
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2003 3:29 am
Location: Fraser Lake, BC

Re: Backburner

Postby Fade Dunaway » Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:03 am

Niteowl wrote:
Fade Dunaway wrote:Nice changelist. The spy stuck bug was particularly irritating (EH OWLEH!?!) :)

Uh, yeah. I actually had changed my playstyle to take into account that bug, it had been around so long (hint, undisguise well before yous tab). But the whole, can't stab then cloak immediately 'fix' is going to be BRUTAL for new spies who can't 'stab-sap'. The poor man's version of that USED to be stab-cloak, redisguise, sap. Now it's just die a million times to a lvl 3 sentry until you can learn to stab-sap.


Oh? I thought it was harder to do the other thing than stab-sap. Maybe because that's because I'm 1/2 retarded (on my mother's side).
"Never hit a man with glasses. Use a bat instead."

AKA Alcoholocaust
User avatar
Fade Dunaway
Fogey
Fogey
 
Posts: 632
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:24 am
Location: Culver City, CA

Next

Return to Marx's Class Warfare (TF2 Forum)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron