A nostalgic trip through ye olde ns forums.

A nostalgic trip through ye olde ns forums.

Postby fallout[aeronautics] » Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:03 pm

The user created topics are just...argh.

I mean, look at it. http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/ ... owforum=92

We have the following topics:

Unknown Worlds Update - Site problems //not user created..but sounds familar?
How to balance skill on a server //debated to death 3 years ago
Less elitist gameplay //same
Fades need to be nerfed //same
A good game versus |-| 4 |{ 5 0 r Z //omg the hax mp_blockscripts 1 4 lyfe yo!!!!
What would 'you' personally say is a res hoarder? //spend the res on worthless crap like OCS!!

Seems like the same crap that really killed NS, at least for me, is going to plague NS2. Flayra needs to tell a loud mouths to just shut and go away, for the sake of NS2 being a game worth playing.
My password was eaten by a rather large space goat. Egads.
User avatar
fallout[aeronautics]
Strigiformophobic
Strigiformophobic
 
Posts: 877
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:46 pm

Re: A nostalgic trip through ye olde ns forums.

Postby Fade Dunaway » Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:12 pm

The elitist community is present almost everywhere. What killed NS, sadly, is the hardcore-only nature of the gameplay. NS is hard as shit for a new player to figure out, if your commander sucks or team sucks it's hard to have any fun, soft- and hard-counters are not apparent -- there's a lot of factors here. NS is a fantastically-designed game, but its ability to appeal to a mass market is really limited. Without fresh blood coming into a game, it will die as people slowly leave over time and the competitive/hardcore community will crush itself under its own weight without the public player foundation to draw from.
"Never hit a man with glasses. Use a bat instead."

AKA Alcoholocaust
User avatar
Fade Dunaway
Fogey
Fogey
 
Posts: 632
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:24 am
Location: Culver City, CA

Re: A nostalgic trip through ye olde ns forums.

Postby BigDXLT » Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:35 pm

I suspect that those discussions are mostly to do with what people are assuming are going to be a problem. There is as of yet no word on what the gameplay is going to be like. They are even considering an alien commander which would change everything. A couple years ago I remember an IRC chat where Flayra was considering having no "static" commander at all for NS2 (considering more of a field commander or something.)

Or are you talking about the community in general? Which come to think of it might be what you're getting at... but really, it seems like a distilled version of every gaming community. Filtered by the long, sweet, cold death that all hl mods are going through. I've seen it before, old topics you've read a million times re-created, newbies who are way late to the game, coming in totally confused, hitting a brick wall of obsessive diehards who practically speak in another language with all their lingo and inside (old) jokes. I've stopped reading a lot of forums now, and may have pretty much beat my NS forum daily crack habit of constantly checking for updates on whatever. Come to think of it, I should probably remove it from my Opera speed dial now...
Funner then chuckin' rocks at a sign!
User avatar
BigDXLT
the First Motorized Sasquatch
the First Motorized Sasquatch
 
Posts: 4657
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2003 3:29 am
Location: Fraser Lake, BC

Re: A nostalgic trip through ye olde ns forums.

Postby Darwin » Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:03 am

First, Fade's comments are a pure 1/4 MOA group at 1km. It's almost like he thinks about game design all the time!

Second, this whole worried about killing NS2 thing...It seems somewhat like worrying about Santa's weight problem leading him to a heart attack and an early grave.

If Santa weren't fat, he wouldn't be Santa. However (hide the children! SPOILER ALERT!) Santa isn't real. You're never going to see him, so he can't very well die. He's a concept, an ideal, as untouchable and unreal as a perfect round of NS.
MeatSpace: David
NS-Darwin
Now Serving 16450
:shock:
"Because keeping people advised requires helpfulness but running a server requires spite."
User avatar
Darwin
Carnifex of the Akimbo Smoking Guns
Carnifex of the Akimbo Smoking Guns
 
Posts: 4811
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Ban, IN Nation

Re: A nostalgic trip through ye olde ns forums.

Postby fallout[aeronautics] » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:51 pm

I agree, there is no such thing as a perfect round of NS.... but there is a such thing as a tolerable round of NS. You know, the one where you didn't want to remove your eyeballs with a blunt spoon or something.

BigD nailed it though. I was talking about the community. The whole "fades are overpowered because I can't kill a good one," blaming scripts for all the evils of gaming and crying because people are better than them when they first pick up the game. Maybe I'm seeing things through a rose-colored lens, but I didn't remember this much whining when NS was a new game.

There were still noobs, but they were noobs who listened or quickly found the exit. Now, the noobs who used to find the exit hang around and demand things be changed to fit what they want the game to be.
So, enter ridiculous gameplay modes like JP/HMG with 150000 health and 200000 armor to make the noobs own with ease.

Eh, enough of me ranting.

Here's to NS2. Please be a good rts/fps instead of a combat-flavored piece of crap.
My password was eaten by a rather large space goat. Egads.
User avatar
fallout[aeronautics]
Strigiformophobic
Strigiformophobic
 
Posts: 877
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:46 pm

Re: A nostalgic trip through ye olde ns forums.

Postby CanadianWolverine » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:08 pm

Maybe I'm seeing things through a rose-colored lens, but I didn't remember this much whining when NS was a new game.

There were still noobs, but they were noobs who listened or quickly found the exit.


Thing is, that was acceptable when it was a free mod. As gamers, we do display some tolerance for a game's downsides when its free, its flaws can be ignored to a certain extent.

But then start charging for it and those same flaws becoming glaring holes to the end user satisfaction - and then the last thing you want is your game to be more an exercise in frustration than fun. Good word of mouth may spread about games, but if our love of Yahtzee diatribes is anything to go by, bad words spread even faster.

Either Unknown Worlds is going to learn from those past frustrations for gamers, especially the new ones, and succeed or create the magnum opus of deep elite play which proves to be about as accessible as Fort Knox which they can gloriously fail financially by. I'm not saying great gaming equals a game that doesn't sell, in fact, just the opposite - great games are accessible.
Check it out! I finally figured out where to make a avatar that will fit on the forums! http://www.shrinkpictures.com/create-avatar/

http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/
Image
User avatar
CanadianWolverine
Cutest. Baby. Evar.
Cutest. Baby. Evar.
 
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 4:46 pm
Location: Ucluelet - Tofino - Nanaimo BC Canada

Re: A nostalgic trip through ye olde ns forums.

Postby pr0phetik_dreamz » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:14 am

One of the things that constantly bug me nowadays is that I check the server list or http://www.game-monitor.com, and I see "400 players online." Now, that's an obscenely small number even compared to CS:Z's 10K players online at a given time. CS routinely has 20K+ players and CS:S has well over 45K players at peak hours. Wait, what now? 95% of the NS "players" are actually bots.

That just sucks. There isn't anyone left to play with.

Now, if I were to try to venture onto one of the remaining servers, they're all shoved full with 50+ plugins, 50 lvl combat with xmod and buildmenu, bs1, etc what have you. The gameplay is mindless. Extra health, armor, cybernetics, auto-weld, blah. Instead of the core NS cornerstone of capturing/holding res nodes and destroying enemy nodes, and *trying* to keep your equipment, co_ has morphed NS into a "hay let's run into the room, kill one enemy, and then die to the 5 other enemies." Sounds like CS to me.

That is, *if* I can get onto one of those servers. One of the super hilarious things you all know how much I suck at NS. Teamplay, I'm good at, but hey, I'm very much happy as a battle gorge/support lerk or base monkey. I'm actually banned from nearly every server in NS now. The reason? Apparently I'm a hacker/exploiter/scripter/macro-user. I checked with some of the servers that banned me, and they don't even have demos or good proof of said allegations. So, to this new breed of co_-playing, rush and dying, no brain player-base, anyone who's better than them is obviously a hacker and must be banned. Talk about skill-hating.

co_ was supposed to ease noobs into ns_ maps. It didn't. It's fun, but it failed.

We don't need to nerf fades anymore. Though I'm not a fade-type myself, the blink has been nerfed to such an extent that it's barely worth using. Other things have been messed up too, such as being able to kill a fade with 2 well-aimed lvl3 shotgun blasts instead of the 2.5/3 it used to take. That's retarded. What's the point of spending so much res when you'll get killed anyway? Well ok. Most pub fades nowadays are so bad I could LMG them anyway.

There was a lovely time when there existed a strong regular community alongside the elitists. IIRC, the elitists fucked up NS by demanding it to be more aligned to their competitive style of play, which led to the regulars leaving for better pastures. Operation co_ was a desperate attempt to pull more regulars from other FPSs (CS), but only led to those whiners outwhining the elitists, and made the elitists leave too.

The dev team needs to stop flip flopping, create a backbone of a consistent style of play (whatever it may be). It is good to build on the classic NS game, as that was a great concept to begin with. They need to de-emphasize co_ and highlight classic (it's a bit depressing to even call it "classic" NS, which implies it's outdated and outmoded). They need to create some system or tutorial that will better ease new players into the game so they don't run around like headless chicken. They need to stress community building. Sure, it's fun to watch clan matches, but any competitive e-sport ends up butchering and bastardizing the original game in pursuit of speed and efficiency (you'd only need to watch a few NS clan matches or YouTube Korean StarCraft matches to see why). The environment, the ambience, the deepness of the game that draws you in is gone. With strong communities, you'll have free support for your game -- the communities will nurture and help new players, such as OldF has done for our new players in the past.

Nikon and I had a talk about this the other day. We both love NS, but find that we rage-quit because our heads explode within 5 minutes of being in any current NS game.
Image
An Original American Pai
User avatar
pr0phetik_dreamz
the Chivalrous Cybernetics Lover
the Chivalrous Cybernetics Lover
 
Posts: 2030
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:25 am
Location: Huntington Beach, California

Re: A nostalgic trip through ye olde ns forums.

Postby BigDXLT » Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:17 pm

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if half of the people that still regularly play ns are on our ban list.

But now that I think about it, it does not surprise me one bit people are complaining about the game balance. They don't realize they aren't actually playing the game. They are playing some plugin-infested doppleganger.

I might log in and make note of that in one of those threads just for kicks.

Edit: Scratch that. Sites down. D'oh.
Funner then chuckin' rocks at a sign!
User avatar
BigDXLT
the First Motorized Sasquatch
the First Motorized Sasquatch
 
Posts: 4657
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2003 3:29 am
Location: Fraser Lake, BC

Re: A nostalgic trip through ye olde ns forums.

Postby St0nkingByte » Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:49 pm

I played NS today, it was so bad.

Only bitter and weird modded servers left. :(
Niteowl wrote:i like him. solid feller. and excelent post !
User avatar
St0nkingByte
Coding Plugins for a Plugin of a Plugin
Coding Plugins for a Plugin of a Plugin
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 8:32 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA

Re: A nostalgic trip through ye olde ns forums.

Postby Darwin » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:45 pm

So, am I the only one speculating on how many of those hacking bans were someone's brother? :)

Not that I think he hacks either mind you :)
MeatSpace: David
NS-Darwin
Now Serving 16450
:shock:
"Because keeping people advised requires helpfulness but running a server requires spite."
User avatar
Darwin
Carnifex of the Akimbo Smoking Guns
Carnifex of the Akimbo Smoking Guns
 
Posts: 4811
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Ban, IN Nation

Re: A nostalgic trip through ye olde ns forums.

Postby pr0phetik_dreamz » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:06 am

Haha, eyesense doesn't have the passwords to my two accounts. He has an account of his own :)

But yes, we're both banned on many servers nowadays. I remember playing a spacefall type co_ map a few months ago, and I pistol sniped a skulk from across the map. Turned out he was an admin, and I was banned for "aimbotting" because "everyone knows that you cannot aim and hit aliens from across a map." Nevermind that the pistol by nature has laser bullets that instantly hit with no spread. Eyesense was banned later on by the same admin because "no fade is that good." Eyesense is one of the quietest and non-asshat clanners I know haha.

Skill hating! :D

Lol.
Image
An Original American Pai
User avatar
pr0phetik_dreamz
the Chivalrous Cybernetics Lover
the Chivalrous Cybernetics Lover
 
Posts: 2030
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:25 am
Location: Huntington Beach, California

Re: A nostalgic trip through ye olde ns forums.

Postby Beasty » Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:44 am

Darwin wrote:Second, this whole worried about killing NS2 thing...It seems somewhat like worrying about Santa's weight problem leading him to a heart attack and an early grave.

If Santa weren't fat, he wouldn't be Santa. However (hide the children! SPOILER ALERT!) Santa isn't real. You're never going to see him, so he can't very well die. He's a concept, an ideal, as untouchable and unreal as a perfect round of NS.


Oh noz! Is it a foretelling... will NS2 ever be seen! :|
St0nkingByte wrote:I want a plugin where you can mount a skulk on the back of a gorge. When you do that the gorge only moves half as fast but the skulk can swivel around and fire 100 parasites a second.
Beasty
Fogey
Fogey
 
Posts: 594
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:23 pm
Location: Richland, Washington

Re: A nostalgic trip through ye olde ns forums.

Postby Ni » Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:58 pm

Beasty wrote:Oh noz! Is it a foretelling... will NS2 ever be seen! :|

Seems to think NS2 is coming out this year: http://www.systemwars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69169
Nothing makes a woman angrier than a sleeping man. --Anon
User avatar
Ni
He Who Demands Shrubberies Uncouthly
He Who Demands Shrubberies Uncouthly
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:03 am
Location: Idaho

Re: A nostalgic trip through ye olde ns forums.

Postby Beasty » Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:16 pm

That would be amazing, because from what they have on Unknown Worlds doesnt seem like it could happen. They're still talking about concept it seems.

OMG, Fallout 3

Image

Thats going to be an amazing game.


BTW I was just getting around to listening to the last March podcast and.... NS2 on the 360? Could you imagine fading with a controller? And how about commanding?
St0nkingByte wrote:I want a plugin where you can mount a skulk on the back of a gorge. When you do that the gorge only moves half as fast but the skulk can swivel around and fire 100 parasites a second.
Beasty
Fogey
Fogey
 
Posts: 594
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:23 pm
Location: Richland, Washington

Re: A nostalgic trip through ye olde ns forums.

Postby pr0phetik_dreamz » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:58 am

I'm not sure about NS2 coming out this year, after all, Unknown Worlds just barely secured investment capital. Hopefully soon anyway, and that they can use the Source Engine to its fullest. Source seems a bit outdated now that Unreal Engine 3 is vastly more capable, and available. Overall, my cynicism about the dev team's lallygagging and bending over to whiners is just to cover up what semblance of optimism I have left for NS.

Really though, not being able to even have an operable website tells you a lot about a company. I'm not surprised that they never received investment capital until recently. When they really needed the money 2 years ago, they didn't get it. It was also during that time that their site was down for what was it? Nearly a year? Or was it over a year?
Image
An Original American Pai
User avatar
pr0phetik_dreamz
the Chivalrous Cybernetics Lover
the Chivalrous Cybernetics Lover
 
Posts: 2030
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:25 am
Location: Huntington Beach, California

Next

Return to Babblers and Turrentz and Scorpions that Hovar OH MY! (NS forum)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron