[RELEASED!] co_nadir... AGAIN!

From game maps and mods to random artwork and writing, it's the place to be when your not at the coffeeshop or taking a nap!

Postby Funka! » Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:10 pm

i've got this permanently mirrored here:

http://pj.oldf.net/pub/maps/naturalsele ... _nadir.zip

you are more than welcome to distribute this link with whatever official release announcements you care to make!

(and, i'll be installing this on PJ shortly...)

-f!
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Postby BigDXLT » Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:19 pm

Thanks ye good sir! :D
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Postby Florp Incarnate » Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:42 pm

Bug report:

In one round, the window in the hive was not present, and skulks were able to go out into space and crawl around on the space station, and even go say hi to the marines through the MS window from space. Apon reload the window was there. I don't know how to recreate this bug.

SPACE SKULKS, ROCK ROCK ON!
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Postby BigDXLT » Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:20 pm

Ahhhh geeze... and I wasn't there to see it? ROLF!

That's gotta be a bug with NS perhaps? If space skulks are a recurring problem, let me know and I'll update it. Amnizu confirmed a random elevator bug where an elevator leaves before the door closes. Fortunately, it too fixes itself. So I may just leave it. As our pal Strong Bad would probably say, "Bugs are fun!"

It's good to hear it's being played! (Hopefully my ping will smarten up one night so I can give'r a go with some people!)
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Postby fallout[aeronautics] » Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:57 am

I think I have only 2 complaints about the design.

1.) Aliens can hive heal in marine start.

2.) The hive is so easy to camp. You just stand in the long hallway near it and you can shoot the hive and the spawning aliens. Its a little too powerful of a position.
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Postby Feyd Rautha » Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:52 pm

Yeah, the elevators get 'out of sync' with the doors basically. It's timing as the game progresses, after about 20 minutes their unusable until they sync up again. Just need to adjust the timing, or actually make the door tied to the elevator in some way. :) I'd be nice if the elevators ran faster too...

The map did crash my client once, but only in the RR.

I love the collapsed room btw.
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Postby BigDXLT » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:30 pm

Fallout:
1) Yeah, I wondered about the hive healing thing. I hoped it wouldn't be too powerful. It's a fundamental flaw in it's design (as is) it seems. TBH, I hoped it gave the aliens a bit of an advantage... because marines seem to stomp them. (Other than the fade) But I based that assumption purely on what people were saying, because I can't really play NS at all anymore.

2) Crud. That was a last minute concern. I slapped up those walls in there hoping to reduce that possiblity, but line of sight like that is hard to judge with nobody else. The general layout of this map was conceived when "wave spawning" was still in.

I'm thinking of completely redoing the hiveroom. I orginally planned to have the door at the back lead to another room that the hive and a few more spawn points would be located at. I'll revisit that idea. (Originally scrapped because I got lazy!) That should address both of your concerns. At the same time, this room will be a semi-collapsed room, allowing me to lower the hive and hopefully have little to no MS healing.

Feyd:
Out of sync eh? This is really strange. The doors actually are set to only tell the elevator to move after the door shuts, and when the elevator gets to it's next level, it stops and fires a message to the door to open. It then waits for the door to fire off the move message. The doors wait 10 seconds before they close.
I know, as was the case for Amnizu, sometimes they'll move at the start of the game before the door opens, (I just thought of a cheap fix for that actually) but they fix themselves on the next door opening sequence. But going out of sync as the game progresses? That's very strange.
Do the doors open before the elevator stops? Does the elevator move before the door shuts? Was it the MS elevator or the one off gone in the middle of nowhere? Or both?
Did the elevator "appear" to be there but, not solid, as if the clip hull was out of sync with the visible hull? (This is a problem I have in co_pron, but with a func_rotating entity instead.) God, I hope it isn't this problem.
If ya can detail it as much as possible, it'll help track this kind of silliness down! Same goes for anyone reporting bugs, the more info on the who what and where makes it the easier to squash'em! (Don't worry, you can't be over detailed!) I'll also hop up the speed a notch.

If anyone else finds a crashing problem, gimme all the info ya got on the who what where when. (I hope that's a completely random silly thing like the missing window.)

Thanks for the comments! :D
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Postby Feyd Rautha » Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:03 am

BigDXLT wrote:Do the doors open before the elevator stops?

Actually, at least with the 'big' elevator, they just don't close at some point. it's fun to see the engine try to fill in a non-existant space in the map.

BigDXLT wrote:Did the elevator "appear" to be there but, not solid, as if the clip hull was out of sync with the visible hull? (This is a problem I have in co_pron, but with a func_rotating entity instead.) God, I hope it isn't this problem.


No, the elevator is actually there moving up and down, I didn't stand there and watch it for a long time, you'll get there on level 1 and the door will be open and the elevator will 'arrive' and render correctly, you can get on and the elevator will move down to level 2, but the door won't close.

The MS 'small' elevator works correctly but gets out of sync with the door.
In other words, after a while, you have less and less time to get onto the elevator before the door closes. I think this is a problem with the elevator's alignment with the door. Eventually the MS elevator won't open at all for about 10 minutes ( you can hear it moving, but it doesn't ever 'arrive' ). Eventually it falls back into alignment and slowly gets out of sync again over time.

That may be the problem with both elevators and why the 'big' elevator never closes it's door.
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Postby BigDXLT » Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:56 pm

:?

It sounds almost like the elevator is not only moving vertically, but horizontally, and hence blocking the movement of the door somehow.

It really shouldn't do that sort of thing. The elevator isn't on a timer of its own, it only moves when the door tells it too. And that should be after the door closes. Something seems seriously wrong. I'll have to get on the server one night when nobody is around to see for myself I guess.

The way you describe the ms door getting "faster" it sounds like the timer it has (the only timer in the system) is counting down a bit with each use.
So instead of 10 seconds, it's 9 seconds. And so on and so on. But if that were the case, it'd go into negative infinity and never close!

I'm fairly sure the logic in my system is correct. I've run my map on my computer for well over an hour sometimes and the elevators never hiccupped a bit over time. This suggests that when put into the network environment, these entities are doing something weird and different.

Sorry if I seem to be rambling, it's just easier to think outloud sometimes, so to speak.

Thanks for elaborating Feyd.
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Postby BigDXLT » Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:23 pm

Well I've finally got around to working on this map again. I've fixed the hive-healing in marine spawn, by "simply" moving the marine level up one story. You can still hive-heal on the middle floor but that shouldn't be terrible. With the long hallways, the aliens need some kind of help, I figure.

The spawn camping in the hive room ought to be fixed as well. I've rearranged it completely and now a marine has to be in the hive room to shoot the hive. I'm liking this new design a lot better myself, though it needs tweaking still. It kind of sucks trying to balance a map when you rarely play the game let alone the map! :p

There have been some small detail changes here and there as well.

As for the elevator problem that Feyd elaborated on, I am really stumped there. I can't reproduce it when I load the map on my computer, despite it running for over an hour, and I still can't get on a server to test it there. My logic appears correct, and as far as I can tell it has to be a problem with the server-client prediction code or something. I really can't see how I can fix it. *shrug*
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Postby Florp Incarnate » Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:31 pm

All I have to say is SPACE SKULKS, TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!
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Postby BigDXLT » Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:01 pm

Oooooh you just gave me an idea... hehehe...
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Postby BigDXLT » Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:41 am

Fresh new release! Straight out of the dryer! See first post for details on how to get yours!

And the above mentioned idea, unfortunately, never got implemented because of a severe case of laziness!
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Postby BigDXLT » Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:03 pm

If someone could get me some screen shots of the bugged elevators, that'd be swell. (Why'd I not think to ask for this before?)
Just email them to me, bigdxlt <at> gmail.com, and let me know here that you did. (I tend to not check my many email accounts very often...)
Thanks y'all!
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