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Postby Amnizu » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:46 pm

I really like Moira, but the frame droppage in the middle ramp room is ridiculous. Drops me from 95-100 to 25-30. Aside from that, I'd make the dynamic infestation more prominent, because that's really cool.
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Postby BigDXLT » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:06 pm

It's still there? Back on my old machine, I noticed it, not to that extreme, maybe 10-15 fps, but I did a whole pile of crap to get rid of it too (early versions had a very nice particle system coming out of the pit but I ripped it out trying to fix it.) However, for the development of this version, I've moved to this new computer and I feel nary a breath of a drop in fps. It saddens me that it's still there at all, let alone worse. (Though are you sure it's not to do with the issues you had before? It's a high detail (read r_speeds for fellow mappers) area so a couple fps are to be expected compared to other areas but 70 frames ARE ridiculous...) Note: I'm still using the same graphics card as I did before, just a better CPU, hence my belief that before it was simply the high r_speeds.

I... simply don't know what I can do to further fix it, without filling the pit with a giant column. :(
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Postby Amnizu » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:05 pm

I think it's some kind of lighting or other entity, because I can pinpoint the exact spot it starts through trial and error. I lag even when I'm not looking out over the pit or down into it so I don't think it's a vis thing. Maybe a light?
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Postby Nikon » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:07 pm

iza haev a 10-15 fps drop[ on the pit rooom too
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Postby BigDXLT » Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:10 pm

Huh. There are no dynamic lights in there (also ripped out early on like the particle system) There are a couple of models (the chairs) and sprites (at the top of those light columns at the top of the ramps) though those should be easily handled by the graphics card (or else you'd lag in veil/hera/origin/every other map that uses those models/sprites). There are a few entities in there too, but nothing outrageous. (The hive area has more entities doing more things at similar r_speeds...)

Amnizu, can you describe the spot or take a screenshot? And if you do the latter, type the following in your console first so I can get some more info:
sv_cheats 1
developer 1
r_speeds 1

and after that shot:
gl_wireframe 2

(I just suggest this because, as the adage goes, a picture says a thousand words!)
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Postby Velour Kitten » Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:49 am

Rejoice, peasants! For Moira is now in rotation on Life Support!
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Postby Niteowl » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:45 am

Arthur: Old woman!

Dennis: Man!

Arthur: Man, sorry... What knight lives in that castle over there?

Dennis: I'm 37!

Arthur: What?

Dennis: I'm 37, I'm not old!

Arthur: Well I can't just call you "Man"...

Dennis: You could say "Dennis"...

Arthur: I didn't know you were called Dennis.

Dennis: Well you didn't bother to find out, did you?

Arthur: I did say sorry about the old woman, but from behind you looked...

Dennis: (interrupting) What I object to is your automatically treatin' me like an inferior!

Arthur: Well I AM king...

Dennis: Oh, King, eh? Oh, very nice... And how'd you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers! By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society! If there's ever gonna be any progress in our society...

Woman: Denny, there's some lovely filth down here!
[Noticing Arthur] Oh! How d'you do?

Arthur: How do you do, good lady. I am Arthur, King of the Britons. Whose castle is that?

Woman: King of the who?

Arthur: The Britons.

Woman: Who are the Britons?

Arthur: Well we all are... We are all Britons... And I am your king.

Woman: I didn't know we had a king... I thought we were an autonomous collective.

Dennis: You're foolin' yourself. We're livin' in a dictatorship! A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes...

Woman: (interrupting) Oh there you go, bringing class into it again...

Dennis: That's what it's all about! If only people would...

Arthur: Please, please, good people, I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?

Woman: No one lives there.

Arthur: Then who is your lord?

Woman: We don't have a lord.

Arthur: What?

Dennis: I told you. We're an anarcho-cynicalist commune. We take it in turns to sort of act as a sort of executive officer for the week.

Arthur: Yes.

Dennis: But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting...

Arthur: Yes I see.

Dennis: ...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs...

Arthur: Be quiet!

Dennis: But by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major...

Arthur: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!

Woman: Order, eh? Who does he think he is?

Arthur: I am your king!

Woman: Well I didn't vote for you!

Arthur: You don't vote for kings.

Woman: Well how'd you become king then?

[Angelic music plays...]

Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king!

Dennis: (interrupting) Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme executive power derives from a
mandate from the masses, not from some farcicial aquatic ceremony!

Arthur: Be quiet!

Dennis: Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!

Arthur: SHUT UP!

Dennis: Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bink lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!

Arthur: SHUT UP! WILL YOU SHUT UP! [Grabs Dennis]

Dennis: Ah! Now we see the violence inherent in the system!

Arthur: SHUT UP!

Dennis: Oh, come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

Arthur: (muttering) Bloody peasant!

Dennis: Oh, what a giveaway! Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about! Did you see him repressin' me? You saw it, didn't you?
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Postby Pykl » Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:15 pm

are you insinuating velour is a watery tart? or are you simply aggitated your filth collecting was interrupted by a little repression.
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Postby Niteowl » Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:29 pm

Pykl wrote:are you insinuating velour is a watery tart? or are you simply aggitated your filth collecting was interrupted by a little repression.

It's not filth! It's post composted, minerally enriched, water solvenated, terra cotta GOLD my friend! And if you can't see that, then you are just perpetuating the class system that empowers watery uppity tarts.

Not that I'm saying Velly is uppity, or tarty, or anything of that sort! But she does like cats to an unusual degree, so cannot be completely trusted.
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Postby Darwin » Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:41 pm

Pykl wrote:are you insinuating velour is a watery tart? or are you simply aggitated your filth collecting was interrupted by a little repression.


That wouldn't make any sense at all! I mean, clearly I'm the watery tart whop ut Vel in charge of LS.
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Postby BigDXLT » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:19 pm

And there was much rejoicing!


Yay!
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Postby BigDXLT » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:44 pm

So I've been doing a bit of work on it again. Got a couple areas looking more detailed, while at the same time I've reduced the r_speeds in the bigger areas a tad (hive/giantpitroom). I've also lit up a few of the darker corners and have been working on make the vents a bit more accessible.

Anyone had a few good games on it with other people? I've had 3v3 or bot games and that's about it so far. One piece of feedback I've got (on what I suspect was a xmenu style server) was that it was marine biased due to the openness and a lack of a way to quickley flank the marines. Would this be accurate? (I suspect otherwise due to the naturally higher skill level on our servers and my own experience so far.)

What I'm looking for is gameplay feedback and any other other suggestions you might have.

On that note, I still don't know what to do about the fps issues. I'm hoping the r_speed reductions lessens, if not fixes, the problem but we'll see.
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Postby Niteowl » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:13 pm

Yeah, that open area in the centre totally kills my fps. I think it needs more vents to outflank the rines though. Quick vents. That was after maybe 2 short games.
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Postby CanadianWolverine » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:30 pm

Personally, I don't understand the "not enough vents". Sure, against bots who don't seem to use them and just merrily bounce along the hallways and up and down the ramps at the middle, yeah, marines are going to own. BUT, skilled kharaa players use the multitude of vents above and flanking the hallways, in addition to all those little crouch down hide aways and dark corners. I really don't get it, kharaa can clean up big time in that map. Take that big middle with the pit for example, if you bother to look up its just riddled with ways for a skulk to out flank you as a marine. The only place a marine can get a reprieve with the openess is marine start, and isn't that the way its supposed to be? So is the issue really not enough nook's and cranny's in the hive for a skulk to use? I don't see that on other CO maps either. *shrug*

If I had one issue with your map, it would be that it is of a size that allows almost instant domination of the map because its so fast and easy to cross - but then, its CO and really, that is to be expected. Clear cut domination by one side is what I seem to regularily experience in CO, regardless of map. *shrug*
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Postby Amnizu » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:50 pm

CanadianWolverine wrote:If I had one issue with your map, it would be that it is of a size that allows almost instant domination of the map because its so fast and easy to cross - but then, its CO and really, that is to be expected. Clear cut domination by one side is what I seem to regularily experience in CO, regardless of map. *shrug*


I think a gigantic, open map save for a small chamber containing the CC/hive would be a hilarious combat map. Especially with 50 levels.
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